A question about back injury and kayaking
 

For the last week I have been battling intense pain down my left leg.
My days have consisted of just trying to manage the pain through stretches, prescription strength ibuprofen, sitting in the jacuzzi, walking, and using an inversion table every couple of hours.
I barely made it through helping at the JAL tournament and couldn't even sit down to eat while there.
From what I read online it seemed that I had a pinched sciatic nerve.
I went to the doctor today and had x-rays taken and he ordered more tests but seems to think that I ruptured a disc and because of weakness and numbness in my foot that I might have nerve damage also. He also mentioned surgery. I am not jumping to any thoughts of surgery and of course will get other opinions when the time comes. I was given a prescription for a steroid that I took this morning that seems to be helping some already.

My question.....
Have any of you guys had the same diagnosis and if so how has it affected your fishing?

I currently can not even sit in a comfortable chair for more than 10 minutes let alone on a kayak for 10 hours.

Mike

Hey Mike I've had similar issues with my nerve causing numbness all the way to my toes and top of foot. Went to a chiropractor and saw him a couple times a week for about a month but he fixed me up. Back started feeling better quickly but nerve damage takes longer to heal and lasted over a month but eventually went away. I would go that route before surgery or even the steroids. They treat the cause and make the symptoms go away, first time and I am now a big believer.

Hi Mike,
I have had years of lower back pain (construction and sport abuse), dislocated shoulder (dirtbike over the bars on a down hill), broken wrist (stuffed a tree dirt biking) and a hip issue(wresting injury in high school in the early 90's). I was unable to sleep threw the night from the shoulder, constant pain in most of the areas listed above at different times. I have been going to a very naturalpathoic/homopathic chiropractor and nutritionist for about 8 years. I can tell you that the shoulder took about 4-6 months of hard core care, the back is solid 95% of the time, the wrist has just a bit of ache here and there with abuse rock climbing and construction work, and the hip that bugged me for 18 years is now not bothering me as of 2 months ago. Its a longer path, but a better long term result.

its called 'getting old'.

My son has sciatica. The doctor referred him to physical therapy a few times a week for a few months which helped him out immensely. He now knows the proper stretching techniques and can usually stop the pain right when he feels it coming on by himself, or at least limit it to tolerable levels. If you have a slipped disk then you're on the right track to having it evaluated, but rest it and hopefully you can avoid back surgery. As far as fishing, you already know that you can't really do anything with that sort of pain going on. Good luck!

Greg has sciatica going down both legs...it only hurts a lot all the time...he doesn't let it slow him down though. He just lives with the pain....


To tell you the truth...I think the fucker likes it...:eek:


I guess the pain of not going fishing is a pain he is just not willing to bare...

Some people deal with pain better than others, Greg must be one of them. I've had sciatic nerve pain a few times, it would be damn hard to have to learn to live with that.

when my sciatic nerve acts up it pretty much acts like what you describe, it got to be torture when driving or sitting. It took about 8 years for the sciatica to go away completely. Some people get right over it, others suffer with it for a long time.

I wish fishing was my job but unfortunately I am a physical therapist mon-fri. Please please please go see a PT. You can see a PT for 45 days without a referral from an MD in California. If you will be seeing one longer you will need to get a referral from your MD. Going to see your MD is going to do nothing for you. He/She can give you pain meds that might mask the symptoms for a little while but it does not fix your problem. This is so very common and a combination of stretching, strengthening, positioning and activity modification can do lot. Please don't even mention the word surgery. You do not want anyone going near your back with a knife. The success rate is not as good as you would hope. I would strongly encourage you to not listen to random people on a message and go speak with an outpatient PT. PM me if you have any specific questions.

I learned long ago, no wallet in my back pocket!

Recent pinched nerve in upper back, several weeks of pain, ibuprofen and alternating heat and ice after several weeks finally subsided.

When I herniated my L5S1 about 6 years ago, it was really painful. Couldnt tie my shoes for weeks. Out of work for months. Very limited as to what I was able to do. When the injury happened, I felt a pop and immediately fell to the floor and had to be taken to the ER with some help. No surgery just months of physical therapy before I saw any kind of improvement. Been dealing with pain since it happened. Recently what Has helped me was dropping some weight as well as sleeping on a stiffer mattress. Im also trying epidural injections and I have my second one scheduled for this Friday actually. These shots help, but its not a permanent fix. I just had nothing to lose as sometimes my pain is so bad it makes me yell at my fiancé (thats what she tells me).

The last doctor visit I had before the first injection revealed an MRI that I was not hoping for. The disc that was herniated over 6 years ago was solid black in color while the rest were white. Doc says it is because its just worn out so much. I also lost all of my reflexes in my left leg since the injury. Nothing to be taken lightly, but this is why I fish now instead of racing motocross. If it had not been for my injury I would have not gotten back into fishing. So I try to stay positive about it.

When I first started fishing, I was on a tarpon 140 then had a revo and I could not stay on the water for more than an hour or so before calling it quits. Now people will probably knock this but I dont care. When i switched to a hobie with the vantage seat, Ive been able to fish 5-6 consecutive days for 10 hours without needing to come off the water. Now im sure the vantage seat is not a 100% of what helped me but along with that and the other things I mentioned above, Im able to still enjoy the hobby I love.

That is a screen shot of my last MRI. You can see the difference in the one that was injured.

The back is the worse!
 

Im very sympathetic of people with back problems, but I know that each individual is different and manages their pain differently.

When I was 14 I had a back injury. After MRI's, Ultrasounds and Bone Scans the Dr. believed there to be a couple hairline fractures on my l6 and l4. Neither him, nor I wanted to purse surgery due to all the risks, age and continued growth. I was sent to physical therapy, which helped some, but the best things for me at the time were surfing, YOGA, acupuncture and not over doing it when lifting or playing sports.

Fast forward 18 years, I have good days and bad. But stretching/YOGA has been one of the best things for me. Not only is strengthening the back important, but your stomach as well. There are days I can't get put my boots on without laying on my back.

Pain management is another important aspect. When I was younger, they gave me Vicodin and other things that weren't the best for me. I've found more "natural" methods of pain relief and they help and don't have some of the same nasty side effects.

Kayak wise, I used to fight fishing in my tarpon 120 after a few hours. I added a garden kneeling pad to my seat and that gave me another hour or two of relief, but as previously mentioned moving to the new the Vantage seat I can fish all day without the same pain. Im also the guy that stretches on the beach for 10 mins before heading out just like I do when surfing.

Hope you find relief.

Sometimes sciatica is caused by a tight piriformis muscle. Google it. The stretches are easy, cheap and won't hurt you. Worth a try.

Mike,

I'm due for surgery the first of next year. I too was in total pain at the tourney. But, I'm the opposite. I can't stand. I can sit all day, but can't stand or walk for any given time. This has been going on, off and on, since 2009. That's why I'm having surgery.

My advice is this. Give your injury time to heal. If it doesn't within a month or so, then go and have surgery. Because it's no way to live.

Ice your back as often as you can, and don't aggravate it. Good luck. Yanni

Bummer thread guys .......

... as I sit here NOT Fishing today because of pain in my back, hip, and knee.


I will be doing and researching the stretching route, Considering seeing a PT.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have decided to fight old age by going all in .............. exercise will make you live longer, even if there is some pain involved.

You should go check out one of those Asian massage places. I hear they can fix you right up! :sifone:

I don't have any disc issues but a work related injury 8 years ago in the low back still gives me lots of pain at times. Been the Dr. and PT route and found that once you find stretches that work for you they can help with the pain and even strengthen your muscles around the back and your core. I have seen the most benefit from doing hot yoga. Dr's and PT said yoga can be very helpful and the wife was going so I gave it a shot. Doing stretches for an hour in a heated class room can kick your but, but I do feel better when done. Work in progress. I will also have to hit the meds when the pain is to bad. Back pain sucks!

Sorry to hear about your back issues Mike.
There could be many reasons for the pain you're suffering. It might be as simple as gaining too much weight (due to advancing age), poor posture, a chronic muscle spasm, or as Andy (my Physical Therapist and confirmed by my orthopedic surgeon) wearing a thick wallet in your back pocket. :confused:
I suffered a work related back injury back in 2007, however mine got worse with time. I had pain, tingling, muscle spasms, weakness and intermittent loss of function in my lower extremities. In 2009 it got so bad I couldn't work any longer and haven't been able to work since. It also severely limited my outdoor/fishing time and after August 2013 I could no longer fish for 12 hour a day like I used to, stand on the bank of a stream searching for/watching trout rise for hours and load/unload my kayak by myself. I've not seen the water since. :( :the_finger:
After being examined by a couple of orthopedic surgeons it was decided it was necessary to have a couple MRI's performed. My result was very much like Brandon's with the exception that there is no gap between the L5-S1 discs, just a dark line (no gap and misaligned/herniated discs).
As it was explained to me, there are "o-rings" between our discs filled with liquid that acts as gaskets that keep the discs separate. It is between these gaps that our nerve roots exit the spine and are susceptible to damage. I tore open the o-ring (it's called an "anular tear") in my L5-S1 gap that resulted in the fluid leaking out and there being no gap and over time and without it, the discs are pinching the nerves to my lower body. :(
If after the course of your current recovery program, your still in pain, I would recommend you obtain a referral for an Orthopedic surgeon and receive a more thorough exam and expert opinion. Let him decide a course of action and discuss your options.
I hope it's something simple and not as serious as Brandon's or my situation.
Best wishes,
FFY :sifone:

Back issues are the WORST. That being said, they can be improved and mostly eliminated if you are careful. I am 27 and I had back surgery when I was 24 to take out 1 of 3 herniated disks in my lower back. I had the numbness in my toes and down my left leg that you are referring to. Be careful not to let the numbness and nerve damage get out of control or it can turn permanent (as you probably already know). Anyways, I had 3 epidurals and did 3 months of physical therapy before turning to surgery. I would definitely try physical therapy first and TONS of stretching (hamstrings/hip flexors). Even thought the PT didn't help me, you never know, it may help you. The most important things they told me in PT were to stretch my hamstrings, stretch my hip flexors, and strengthen my core.

A couple stretches I still do regularly are:

1.) hamstrings - laying on my back with one knee bent and lifting my other, straight leg up as far as i can for 10 times. At the top of the stretch you can pump your ankle up and down which helps loosen things up.

2.) gluts - laying on my back cross one ankle over other knee and bend that knee while pulling to your chest. You should feel this a lot in your lower back and glut.

3.) hipflexor - kneel with one knee down like you are getting engaged (as least from what I've seen in the movies) and then push your hips forward and arch your back. You should feel it in the outside/top/front of your leg.

4.) spine contraction - while on your hands and knees arch your back and look up at the ceiling, then curve your back like a cat and put your chin to your chest. Hold each for 10 seconds and do 10 of each.

Sorry again to hear about your back. I hope you are able to try some of these stretches because they really do help. If you have any questions shoot me a PM as I'm sort of bad at explaining things. With backs there are good days and there are bad days...I am back to about 90% of a completely healthy back but I am extra careful now with any lifting I do, the amount of golf (twisting) I do, and the amount of standing or sitting I do. Even in a kayak I use my arms to lift myself up every once in a while so I'm not in the same sitting position for too long.

I had both my knees replaced in the last year so I have a hard time getting into my yak, I have to get it floating then drop my butt into the seat, landing is worse because I have to get my feet under me and it's hard to get up from a low position. I worry about launching in the surf the first time and I'll probably have problems when I come in. But I still want to fish La Jolla.

Sucks Man
 

Man Mike that sucks, I've hurt my back a few times and that was just a pulled muscle. I feel for you brother! My girlfriend had a bad sciatica issue a few years ago and yoga really helped her. specifically a type of yoga called Vinyasa Flow Yoga, lots of stretching and not in a crazy hot room. Since she got into yoga the stretches that she has learned have helped keep the pain at bay very well. I know lots of people are throwing out lots of advice, but main thing is find something that works for you and keep at it. Also remember if some thing or someone is claiming things that seem too good to be true, it probably is...

There are differing degrees of sciatic issues, and every body is different. I have had moments where I could not roll over on the chiropractic table and months of almost no pain at all. I went through an extensive rehab involving Chiro, Electrical Stimulation, Massage, Acupuncture, Acupressure, Spinal Block, Etc. I tried exercises that others had shared with me that had helped them. But the only thing that helped me was developing my own set of exercises, and not to over stress myself when doing them. Get an MRI, cause no amount of PT is going to heal extensive soft tissue damage. There are also things you can do to help prevent aggravating the injury like as mentioned, not sitting on your wallet, sleeping on a firm mattress on your back, not sitting on couches (most are terrible for this) and keeping your back straight (good posture) as much as you can. IB 800s do almost nothing for me when mine flares up, but Norcos/Vicodin can take the edge off.

I had bad sciatic pain several years back. Doc told me I had a cracked vertebrae (broken back essentially) and that i need to have surgery and have my spine fused to fix it. I told him basically to go F himself and started stretching religiously. 6 months later, back still "broken", no pain of any kind. So glad I didn't have surgery. Nearly 10 years later I'm totally good, though who knows what will come in the future.

In my experience, a good foam roller is just about as important a kayak accessory as any other.

Oh ya, and x2 on the "natural" pain relief!

wow
lot of guys with back issues here

Lots of good advice too.
I have had pinched nerves and sciatic nerve issues.
Mostly time and stretching helps.

Takes up to a month to heal after a flare up typically,
with the sciatic a few months.

Being a carpenter does not help.

If your stomach muscles are not strong, they will have a hard time supporting your back, so strengthening them should help further injury.
Thing is , its hard to strengthen when your hurting.

I found super feet boot inserts make a big diff for me with decent arch support(got high arches)

Doing rep leg lifts to a 90degree and hold helps too in the morning.
Not sleeping on the couch helps too.

For kayaking I bought a small thermarest cushion
keep it half under my seat, half at my lower back.
made a big diff for those 12 hour days...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...0E34PS1E6QWGBX

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...0L._SX522_.jpg

Hey guys,
Thanks to all for the information and taking the time to reply.
I have to say that things are improving some most likely from all of the stretching and steroids.
Surgery will be definitely a last resort.
The need to get back on the water seems a little stronger than the pain right now so I may try this coming week.
I really do appreciate the feedback and replies.

Thanks again,
Mike

Hey Mike,

Sorry to hear about your back situation. I've had many back injuries and have been to many different types of treatment centers. Most have not worked but a couple have. A combination of chiropractic treatment and physical therapy that work specifically together on your back issues is the best combination.

I am currently in my 5th week of Chiro and PT for a rotated and locked L5, a locked up sacroiliac joint, Periformis injury, facet syndrome, and degenerative disc disease. As you see a lot of things going on. But I am finally returning to work next week. I am currently about 85% recovered.

The link below is a guideline of treatment that I am getting in Minnesota . It explains the method and the type of treatment that really works. Its the combination of chiro and PT, and home exercises that make all the difference. Maybe you have a similar clinic in your area. And steroids are a temporary fix that can hurt you more if there is something more serious going on.

http://www.dmrmethod.com/dmr-method/

Cheers buddy,

Get Well!

Justin

thanks for sharing .
 

Hope you are doing well. I got rid of my gsxr-1000. I was riding rice since i was 15 . I am lucky I am walking away .I always rode big bikes. I stopped riding for ten years because of the tickets I had acquired. For some insane reason I decided to purchase a new liter bike again. Times have changed. The new liter bikes are ridiculously fast. Redlining first gear is at just under 14,000 rpm. When I popped it into second gear, the digital readout was over 90mph. I estimated the speedo to be off 6-8 mph which is within tolerance. So it is a safe bet that the bike will do over 80 mph in first gear. Because I have a commercial license, I think I barely grabbed the power band of second gear a handful of times which will put you well over 110. The bike feels solid at 150 mph, probably at 200 mph . That is one of the major improvements in the last decade. The massive frame and swing-arm with the suspension components, not to mention gobs of power. Fortunately I found a new hobby. I have seen people killed and get killed on motorcycles and know of many who were injured seriously. I have aches, pains, and scars from many a different sport or hobby. There is nothing more debilitating then a back injury. Thanks again for sharing you'r experience. Hope to see you on the water soon.

2 things that have kept me in a yak. Accupuncture instead of meds/surgery and the vantage seat in my PA. Without those 2 I would only last a couple of hours and would take days to recover.