Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge - ticket for forgetting my fishing license NPH

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- - ticket for forgetting my fishing license NPH (http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/showthread.php?t=22560)

Crap, after all the years of paying for a fishing license, I'm yearning for the time DFG actually asks to see the license. Happened near New Year's in the big bay, but they only hit the PB'ers. Maybe it's too risky to pull up to a kayak and ask for a license?

I got stopped a few months back in Newport Harbor. I was fishing by myself and another kayaker paddled over and asked how I was doing and if I'd caught anything. We were just sitting talking and the DFG boat came over and asked to see both of our licenses. He had to dig around for his, fortunately I had mine handy. They checked his, asked to see his drivers license to verify that the fishing license was his and then...., they popped the lid off of his front hatch and checked the inside his kayak! Hadn't expected that one. I sat and waited until they were done with him and then I held up my license for them to see. They just waved at me and said, "Thought that you two were together. Have a nice day." and drove off without checking my license or looking inside my hatch. Not sure what was up with that, but I wasn't asking any questions. I just shrugged and just kept on fishing. Personally, I'm glad that they check as I know that there are a lot of people out there who don't buy a license but take advantage of our fishery. You have to 'pay to play'.

I've had DFG search the hatches in my yak and my cooler even after I had it loaded onto the back of my truck in the parking lot. I should have refused the search now that I think of it. Luckily he didn't hassle me about the empty beer cans in the yak :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw (Post 199578)

Why would you want to put yourself in a position where they will say they have probable cause? Before you know it the local police show up and start doing a field sobriety check. Is that really worth it?

When I owned a boat I was boarded by the USCG and DFG several times, not once did I refuse a search or did I even think to refuse. As a matter of fact, I always encouraged it and asked them to check whatever they wanted to check. Why? It's quite simple....................I had nothing to hide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 199582)

This country gives us rights, we *just do not give up on those rights, if we have the right to exercise them*.

If a cop wants to search my house, you don't say yes go head you say where is the warrant? If a cop wants to search your car, you say where is the warrant.

If you have you rights, then do not give them up.

Although, I don't think you have any rights when your fishing or hunting.

just my 2cents

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz (Post 199588)

Frank you got the right to fish Malibu....didn't you give that one up?

I still go and I carry a flare gun for emergency use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz (Post 199588)

Blah blah blah.

Like I said, I have nothing to hide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 199594)

Blah blah blah.

Like I said, I have nothing to hide.

You have nothing to hide, but you never know if the cop has something to hide.

Just because they wear a badge doesn't mean they are good people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw (Post 199578)

... I should have refused the search now that I think of it. L... :D

Clearly some here do not understand how F&W laws work. But before I get into that, allow me to say this: In grade school we are taught that we are innocent until proven guilty. Although this is true when it comes to most crimes, it is not always true. It is true for crimes against people, traffic laws and such. However, try tell the IRS that THEY must prove that you are guilty, and see how far you get.

So Back to F&G (F&W) regulations/laws. They are Prima Facie laws. Prima facie means the burden of proof falls on the defendant (me or you) to prove that you are not guilty - the State's case is proven by the circumstances. In this case,I am guilty until I can prove my innocence.) So in short if you are or have been fishing, or even look like you have been fishing, i.e., have fishing equipment, then probable cause is not needed to conduct a search. The Warden (not a cop) has the legal right to search you, and your yak, car, equipment... WITHOUT your permission.

Further more, the warden has no obligation to question the fisherman. There is a huge difference here, when a cop questions you, he is attempting to establish guilt. When a Warden questions you, he is trying to eliminate guilt, because the F&W laws already ASSUMES your guilty. So if the Warden happens upon you, out on the water, or loading up, driving down the road going home... the fisherman is guilty until he proves himself innocent. No apparent crime need be suspect, the fact that you appear to have engaged in fishing is enough, under the law. A diligent Warden will take the time to attempt to establish innocence or guilt; however he/she is not obligated to do so; so when they do, it could be viewed as doing the legal hunter/fisherman a favor, of sorts. As such, anyone hunting or fishing assumes the risk, and responsibility of proving themselves innocent.

I am going to repeat myself a bit here:
Prima Facie is why, when a person is, has, or appears to have engaged in hunting or fishing, while out in the field or not, a Warden is not required to obtain a warrant to search. The act of hunting or fishing or appearance of, is sufficient, under the law, and guilt is ASSUMED until no evidence of guilt is obtained. When a Warden asks a hunter of fisherman if they mind him/her searching.... when it is obvious they were hunting or fishing, it is a simply a courtesy. The reason for this is that wildlife has no voice. There are no family or bystanders to file a complaint, unless observed by a person willing to report the crime. These crimes (poaching) are often conducted in out of the way locations, remote locations, or under the cover of night, making reporting unlikely. Thus, our F&W regulations, Prima Facie regulations are prima facie regulations/laws to protect our wildlife from unscrupulous people, and we legal hunters and fisherman have the responsibility to accept the fact that we are guilty until proven innocent.
I get that it's counter intuitive, sine we all have been taught as children, that in the U.S. we are innocent until proven guilty. And, with most of our laws, that is true; but not all.

We do however have the right to remain silent. But this is one area where remaining silent may not be to your benefit when you are presumed guilty to begin with. And, yes, like cops, Wardens ask entrapment questions; just like the last time I got pulled over. The cop asked me, who were you talking to on your cell phone. My response, a suicidal client officer. his next question, do you have a business card. I produced a business card, told him to keep it in case he ever needed it. he laughed and said, have nice day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyday (Post 199529)

Cuba does have some awesome fishing I was there for 6 months when I was in the Marine Corps, absolutely massive tarpon. Those things were so easy to catch wish I had a kayak there.

Nice!! I didn't get into fishing until I got out. Wish I could go back in time, and do some fishing while in Okinawa, or even Thailand and Korea!!

Not too sure I'd want to fish the lake on Taqqaddum?? And the Euphrates was outside the wire!!

Semper Fi

I always wondered what Prima Facie meant. The perv peeping on my young preteen daughter mentioned something about Prima Facie evidence before I beat his Prima Facie ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 199582)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubblehide (Post 199620)

Agree with most of what you said, even though CA FGC 856 says that they need probable cause that you committed an offense in order to search without consent. The fact that you've obviously been fishing doesn't mean that you have done something illegal.That said, I just read about the Maikhio vs. California case which says they can stop and question you if you are leaving a hunting/fishing area. It's bad for everyone because the warden had probable cause to stop the vehicle in that case (he witnessed the poaching), but the court decision lets them stop any vehicle now, probable cause or not? It's yet another clear violation of civil liberties, in the name of a "higher cause" (conservation).

I guess we should accept that participating in a highly regulated activity like fishing or hunting comes with heightened scrutiny, regardless of the 4th.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw (Post 199655)

The old

"OFficer, That's not my weed. I don't know how it got there"

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw (Post 199655)

I had nothing to hide either but that's not the point.. refusing to consent does not give them probable cause, and I should not have waived my rights. What if he decided to question the empty beer cans in my cooler, or if he found a kilo of weed that the last guy who owned my yak hid in there..:eek:

Agree with most of what you said, even though CA FGC 856 says that they need probable cause that you committed an offense in order to search without consent. The fact that you've obviously been fishing doesn't mean that you have done something illegal.That said, I just read about the Maikhio vs. California case which says they can stop and question you if you are leaving a hunting/fishing area. It's bad for everyone because the warden had probable cause to stop the vehicle in that case (he witnessed the poaching), but the court decision lets them stop any vehicle now, probable cause or not? It's yet another clear violation of civil liberties, in the name of a "higher cause" (conservation).

I guess we should accept that participating in a highly regulated activity like fishing or hunting comes with heightened scrutiny, regardless of the 4th.

well said

Am I too late to make popcorn??? Damit...:cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by maui jim (Post 199694)

Am I too late to make popcorn??? Damit...:cool:

Hell no!!!

A guy goes fishing on his boat early in the morning and returns in the afternoon. He leaves his tackle box rod and reel in the boat and goes and inside for the day. His wife decides to take the boat out and read a book on the water. Half an hour later a male DFG officer pulls up to her in the boat and asks to see her fishing license, she says ” I don’t fish therefore I don’t have a fishing license , I’m reading a book” the officer reply’s” you have all the proper gear for fishing and no license, if you can’t show me a license I’m going to arrest you and impound the boat.” The woman responds saying “after you arrest me and we get to the station I’m going to tell everyone that you raped me” to which the officer replied” why would you say that?” then she said “because you have all the proper equipment.”

While you may have nothing to hide you still need to be mindful of your rights and the regulations. I have been stopped by the DFW, Harbor patrol / Sheriff, Coast Guard, and even the lifeguard on both the Kayak and boat. Every time I have had all my docs together to show. I was stopped last week while fishing with my son by the Harbor patrol, the officer not only checked our catch and paper work but also did a vessel inspection, while we had nothing to hide, I still asked him questions after he was done about why he was checking our catch as he’s not a DFW officer. He simply said while he was checking to see if my son had the proper life vest he noticed our catch and though it look like we were over our limit and while he is not a DFW he still can call them and detain us until they arrive. Since I had the DFW reg book with me to show him and after he counted the fish he said good by and good luck. He gave my son a bunch of stickers and shook both of our hands. They are there to ensure not only the regulations but to keep us safe. Be respectful, keep your $hit straight and follow the rules and be aware of the situation and you will be fine.

Took half the day off work and got to court earlier but didn't get out of the courtroom almost 2 hours later. The judge says Case Dismiss but pay the $25 administration fee after showing proof of my fishing license. Another guy before me got caught for poaching a fish undersized. $500 dollar fine for that dude but he choose to fight the case. DFG is out doing their job. :luxhello:

I found another way to access the fishing license if you forgot your license and have a smart phone on you. It'll show all the info the officer need so he would have no reason to write you up. Links below.

https://www.ca.wildlifelicense.com/InternetSales/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo (Post 204414)

I found another way to access the fishing license if you forgot your license and have a smart phone on you. It'll show all the info the officer need so he would have no reason to write you up. Links below.

https://www.ca.wildlifelicense.com/InternetSales/

Boy, you got off easy. I would have assumed that after you went through all this you wouldn't even bother seeking an alternative to simply having your license on you. Is it really that hard? I forgot my license once, you want to know what I did? I stopped at the landing and bought a single day license.

Have you ever dealt with the public, I mean really dealt with them in a face to face type of way? Do you know why government workers have a big chip on their shoulder? Its because people don't follow rules that are as clear as day. Deal with someone face to face here and there that can't follow a rule and you'll play nice but deal with people that can't follow simple directions day after day after day and your attitude will change. What I'm trying to say is that the Warden is not going to sit around and wait for you while you to get your phone, find a website and log-in. Chances are that he'll probably be writing the ticket for not having your license while you're doing all that.

P.S.

what are you going to do if your phone is dead or if you do not have a signal?

From the OP... Please read that till the DFW showed up he thought he had his license.

They then ask for my fishing license and I look at my center storage and said "shit i must have left it in my car." I asked, can i go get since my car is near? They said nope, and bam my rod gets a bite and the DFG said to reel it in. What do you know a legal halibut. Since I don't have my license on me, they released my halibut, and handed me a ticket

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 204434)

Well $hit, Congratulations. Sounds like the Judge is a fisherman.
hopefully we have all learned to make sure we have our license in our possession. when we go out. thanks for the update.

Good for you dude :cheers1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by John59 (Post 204472)

I was commenting on him saying there is a website where you can look up your license and not at his original comment. However, since you're quoting the first thread read the last line of that thread and you'll understand my comment. I know my comment came across in a dikish kind of way but rules are rules and the rules state that you have to have your license in your possession, it doesn't say anything about being able to show proof that you purchased one. If it works, great for all of us!

Keep in mind that its our responsibility to know the rules and its the Wardens job to enforce them. Anyway, I'm all out of popcorn so I'll move on to the next show.:D

I'm not saying you shouldn't carry a license when fishing, but giving others fishermen who bought fishing license to have other means of back up in case they find themselves in my situation. We are already the highest fee paying state for fishing license but if you have a smartphone or phone, just take images or screen capture of both license and digital sign in of the dfg website. Make a folder in your smart phone for fishing license so it's easy accessible.

But yes, I got off easy this time, thanks for the kind heart judge. Also in court, a digital proof is as good as printed from what the judge says.

Wow. This thread has been quite the adventure. :rolleyes:

Glad you got it worked out.

That's odd cause I lost my license last month and spoke to DFG officer up in Sacramento and I asked him the same question about a digital copy of my license and was told doesn't matter as we need to see the original license as digital can be altered or forged more easily. I asked if I can show proof via the online link that shows I purchased it and he said again, doesn't matter. Law states you need to have it in your possession. Surprised judge told you that.

Needless to say I stayed home till it arrived in the mail. First thing I pull out when going fishing is my license cause without it I can't fish. A reel, rod, kayak won't do me any good if I can't legally fish.

Glad it worked out for you and hope it's a reminder for future trips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo (Post 204494)

it just depends on the mood of the officer

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorluivil (Post 204489)

Yes, rules are rules, but often when someone has a the right attitude, a nice pair of breasts and long hair to flip, the rules turn into guidelines. Unfortunately most of us do not have the latter two. Better to have a good attitude and some sort the option to have a shot of talking your way out of a $100.00 fine (or whatever it is now) or $25 and wasting half a day in court.

I got stopped on the water at bigbear a few years ago. I saw Patrol coming so I turned for my tackle bag which is usually clipped to behind my seat. I forgot that I used my loaner yak and just grabbed my rod. All my gear was still in the hobie, on the beach, 200yds away. I told the officer that I had both and asked if i could get it. "I believe you. I saw you going for it when you saw me coming. Make sure to keep them with you." he replied. I never saw him again.